Author Archives: Don Matthews

Update on Telebelt Belt Circuit Adjustments

SETTING PRESSURES ON TELEBELT BELT CIRCUITS.

The main conveyors and feed conveyors of Telebelts are two separate hydraulic circuits.  Each has their own pumps, control valves and motors and they are hydraulically independent of each other.

The hydraulic pump capacities vary.  Different models have different pump sizes, depending on belt length.  In addition, Telebelts that have direct drive pumps (TBS) and automatic transmissions use pumps that have capacities that differ from manual transmission Mack counterparts.

This is about pressure setting, not capacity.  Capacity (flow) determines belt speed.  Pressure is the resistance to flow.  If the pressures are correct, the pumps should deliver the required flow.  Pressures are checked with pressure gauges, supplied with the machines when new.  Flow is measured with a flow meter, which is not supplied.

Again, flow determines speed.  A “working man’s” flow meter is a stopwatch.  Data sheets, provided with the machines show function speeds when the unit was in final test.  For example, a test sheet might show 65 seconds to slew the main boom 360 degrees to the right.  If you obtain the same results, with pressures properly set, you can be sure the circuit is still operating as new.

Some things that can affect speed are; low throttle setting, pump wear, motor wear and filter conditions.  You have the tools to check the pressures, so here we go.

Take all test readings from port M1A, for the main conveyor, and M2A for the feeder.  Ports M1B and M2B are load sense ports used by the factory.

There are two pressure settings for each pump.  They are the Low Pressure, a.k.a. “stand-by,” and high pressure.

 The illustration is a TB-110.  The TB-80 is controls mount the same way, but the TB-130 and TB-600 have the controls “laid down” so the volume control knobs face you.  As a result, the TB-130 and TB-600  M1A and M2A  ports face downward.

You will need the 60 bar and 400 gauges, supplied with the Telebelt, to check the pressure settings.  ALWAYS connect the 400 bar gauge first, since there could be more than 60 bar in the circuit of a belt that is not moving, depending how the belt cards are set.

Gauges can be connected when there is pressure on the circuit.  It is not necessary to disengage the PTO’s to connect the gauges.

Pressure adjustments can be made at idle, or just above.  It is not necessary to go to full RPM.

Compensator adjusting screws will have either a lock nut and Allen screw, or an acorn nut that, when removed, exposes a lock nut and Allen screw.  Release the lock nuts and turn the screws IN (clockwise) to increase pressure, or OUT (counter-clockwise) to decrease pressure.

On Mack Telebelts, the front pump on the driver’s side is the main belt pump.  The pump attached to it is the feeder belt pump.  On Telebelts with a transfer case (TOR, Sterling) as well as TBS units, the first pump is the main belt and the second is the feeder.

Setting low pressure, main belt:

  • Start the Telebelt and engage the PTO’s.

    Method 1: DO NOTreset the e-stop.  If the motor control valves are energized, false readings are possible if the belt card zero screws are set too high.  Open the load sense shut-off valve manual bypass.Alternate method:  Reset the e-stop, but disconnect the motor control valve connectors, pull the belt cards out, or remove the belt card fuses.  This will turn the load sense valves on, electrically.  Opening the bypass is not necessary.

    Either method will produce the same results; 1. Load sense shut-off open and 2. no power to belt control valves.

  • Connect 400 bar gauge to M1A and make sure pressure is below 60 bar.
  • Switch to the 60 bar gauge on M1A and read the pressure.  Compare this to the original reading on the test sheet in the front of the manual.  It will probably call for 20 bar.  If the correct pressure is not read, adjust the low pressure setting screw.
  • Remove the 60 bar gauge.

Setting high pressure, main belt:

In order to check high pressure, you have to cause the function to go to relief.  In other words, you have to stall the belt motors or block the flow to the motors.  You can cap the hoses to both motors, or reverse the lines to one of the motors, which cause them to turn against each other.  I prefer the latter.

  • Let the air pressure off the hydraulic tank (TB-105 and TB-110 only)
  • Reverse the hoses to one of the main belt motors.
  • Re-pressurize the hydraulic tank (TB-105 and TB-110 only)
  • Connect 400 bar gauge to M1A
  • Start the Telebelt and engage the PTO’s
  • Reset the e-stop
  • Turn the main conveyor on.
  • Gauge reading should be 280 bar.  Adjust as necessary.
  • Shut Telebelt off and de-pressurize the hydraulic tank (TB-105 and TB-110 only)
  • Return motor hoses to their original position
  • Re-pressurize the hydraulic tank (TB-105 and TB-110 only)
  • Remove 400 bar gauge

Setting low pressure, feeder belt:

 Use the same procedure as for the main, except test at M2A.

Setting high pressure, feeder belt:

Use the same procedure as for the main, except test at M2A.  To block flow in the circuit, cap the pressure line going into the feeder motor.  This is the line that DOES NOT have a “T” in line.

Current production pressure settings – November 2010

 Standby Pressure

Main conveyor pumps except TB(S)-130/600 = 20 bar,  TB(S)-130/600 = 25 bar

All feeder belt pumps = 20 bar

All boom/outrigger pumps = 22 bar

High Pressure

ALL PUMPS = 280 bar.

 

Placing Dirt With a Telebelt

Placing Dirt With a Telebelt

Placing dirt can be a problem. Depending on your area, you could be dealing with clumps, stumps and lumps, among other things.  Moisture content can also be your enemy.  Here are a few tricks.

If you are using the aluminum Front End Loader Hopper (part # A306000), try putting 2×4 blocks under the front pads. This will raise the discharge end of the hopper and expose more belt to take the dirt out and reduce “bridging.” You will have to tie the front of the hopper down to the rail, to keep the blocks from falling out.

This shows a Front End Loader Hopper with an electric vibrator (part # A309849) installed, powered from the accessory plug on the Telebelt.  The operator has also raised the back of the hopper to expose more belt.  Note the chain and binder in place of the rear pin.

Also note the feeder is set up with the legs down.  This is the best way to keep spillage from jamming the tail pulley. Some operators of the small loaders complain they can’t see in the hopper.  They’ll get over it.

The best hopper to use with large loaders is the 3-Yard Hopper (part # A300042).  When using this hopper, keep the bottom of the skirts even with the top of the concrete hopper.  Don’t lower the skirts into the hopper, as that blocks the flow.  When the lower hopper fills, flow will stop.

 

 

View at discharge:  The ideal setup is the 3-Yard Hopper feeding a Low Profile hopper (part # A306001).  The transfer opening is large enough, plus you are not beating the concrete hopper to death.

 

 

 

Side view of Low Profile Hopper under 3-Yard Hopper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An optional hopper grate (part # A309979)  is available for the 3-Yard Hopper.  It is strong enough so loaders can break up clumps.

 

 

 

 

 

It’s hinged, on the front and has notched legs in the
rear to set the angle of the grate.

Belt(s) won’t run? I’ll bet it’s not the pump.

Belt(s) won’t run?  I’ll bet it’s not the pump.

 1 of 3 – Mechanical

This is the first of three articles about Telebelt belt-related problems.

From time to time, I get calls involving a belt that won’t run, or runs very slowly.  The call I like the least is, “My feeder (or main) belt quit running.  I replaced the pump, but it still won’t run.”

With over 800 Telebelts in the field, we are looking at more than 2,100 piston pumps.  We don’t hear of pump failures very often.  Even if we go back to the Super Swinger 105s, of the early 90s, many are still running original pumps.

So, again, I’ll bet it’s not the pump.

Rule # 1 – Check to see if it will run with manual control.  If it will, the problem is probably electrical or in the radio.  If not, it’s mechanical or hydraulic.

Things that stop belts: 

  • Mechanical problems
  • Electrical problems
  • Hydraulic problems
  • Truck or engine failure.  This is beyond the scope of this series.

Let’s deal with mechanical problems, since they are the easiest to spot.

Are the PTO shafts turning? 

  • Actually look at them.  I once spent an hour on the phone with an operator who has just moved and set back up and his belts wouldn’t work.  I finally got him to look under the rig, where he found a pump drive shaft lying on the ground.
  • Is the PTO engaged?  Snow and ice can jam a PTO linkage.  Pins can fall out.  Air lines can leak.  PTO shaft gears can strip.

Do the hoses jerk, like there is pressure?  Does the belt move a little?  Put a pressure gauge on the test port.  If there is 280 bar, and nothing is moving, look for:

  • A seized 5” pulley
  • A seized feeder drive pulley
  • Over-tensioned scraper – Yes, that can stall a belt.  It can also stall a belt that is heavily loaded.
  • Rocks packed at tail pulley (feeder) or drive pulley (main).
  • Rocks packed at the heel of the arm back from the tip section (arm 3 on a TB-105 or 110, arm 4 on a TB-130).  There is supposed to be a v-scraper there to guard the close clearance between the heel pulley and the steel end frame.
  • Feeder motor hoses kinked.  Active (hydraulic lift) feeder machines (TB130, 80 & 110) can do this if the feeder is slewed more than one time around.  On 105’s, feeder lines can get pinched in the transfer.  Also check 105 feeder line quick connects to make sure they have not backed out.
  • Is more torque required?  This is as much a hydraulic issue as mechanical.  Most Telebelt feeders operate just fine with 130cc motors.  Belts that are heavily loaded, paving for example, might require 160cc motor.

Do you think oil is flowing but there is not much pressure? 

  • Feeder – check for stripped drive pulley collet or broken motor shaft.
  • The Main has 2 motors that plug into splined adapters welded into the ends of the pulley shaft.  If the welds on an adaptor break, that motor will be free to spin.  You will hear oil going through the motor.  Operators have finished pours by capping the lines to the “bad” side motor, thus forcing the other motor to drive the pulley.
  • Check main motors for broken shafts.

Are the belts tight enough? 

  • Feeder belt pulleys are more likely to slip, especially if they are the old-style steel-lagged pulleys.  Maintain feeder tension at 1,500 to 1,800 PSI.
  • Once in a while, you will find a ready-mix driver that will wash what he spills.  If he gets the back side of a loose feeder belt wet, the drive pulley might slip. 
  • Main conveyor pulleys are less likely to slip, even if the belts are real loose.  Worn or missing drive pulley rubber lagging leaves a steel surface that will slip.  Maintain main belt tension at 1,000 to 1,200 PSI.
  • Keep lagging grooves, on main and feeder drives, free of grout buildup.

 

 

Test Lights and Bad Grounds

Test Lights and Bad Grounds

Test Light – A probe-type device that lights up, under certain circumstances.  Sold in automotive and other novelty stores, it is used to troubleshoot simple electrical circuits, and other witchcraft.

Test lights are great for troubleshooting tail light circuits on your boat trailer.  They have NO business inside a combi-box.  Telebelt combi-boxes have circuits carrying 24v, 12v, 5v, variable voltage and signal circuits that are read in milliamps.  You can complete circuits, and cause components to fry.  In other words, you can “let the smoke out.”

Basic Rule of Electricity #1 – Smoke makes all electrical things work.  Smoke makes computer chips work. Every time you let the smoke out of a computer chip, it stops working.  Electric motors have to be large to handle all that smoke. A lot of smoke leaks out when they quit working.

Use a multi-meter.  Get one that measures DC voltage, amperage and resistance.  You don’t have to spend hundreds of dollars for a top-of-the-line Fluke meter.  You can get one for less than $10, and it will do what you need.  Keep it in your combi-box.  It will live longer there.

Sooner or later, you might end up calling in with an electrical problem.  You should have a copy of your schematic and a meter.  You are our “eyes and hands” when we troubleshoot over the phone.  We’re not much help if you can’t furnish voltage readings for us.

Bad Grounds

Some of the most difficult calls we get are traced to bad grounds.

I recently had a call from an owner that could not get his TB-105 e-stop to reset.  After going through the steps to figure it out, I determined his e-stop relay was toast.  This was an older TB-105 with a negative Mack battery disconnect.  These were notorious for high resistance at the wire contacts of the Mack switch.  Electrical components that are not properly grounded, can fail.  E-stop relays were particularly sensitive.

I wanted him to check his ground, but he didn’t have a meter.  He did have a test light that lit when he touched the positive and negative terminals of the e-stop relay.  That really doesn’t tell me all I need to know. 

He went and got a $5 meter.  When he connected the meter to the positive and negative e-stop terminals, he read 13.8 volts, since the truck was running.  Then I had him connect the negative lead of the meter to a frame ground and touch the positive lead to the ground side of the e-stop relay.  He read 2.3 volts.  I had him touch the positive lead to the M12 screws (combi-box ground) and he still read 2.3 volts.  In both cases, he should have read zero.

The problem will be traced to the connections on the Mack disconnect switch.  NOTE:  When loosening or tightening nuts on the back side of the switch, use 2 wrenches.  There is a wrench flat at the base of the studs.  Use one wrench on those flats to keep the studs from turning and twisting the wires off internally.

Another way to check the ground is by resistance.  Set your meter to OHMS.  Checking between M12 and a frame ground should read nearly zero ohms.  There is resistance in the wire.  Some meters have a continuity tester in the ohms scale.  They should “beep” when checking this way.

Oh, and meters can check diodes, too.  This way we can help you find the smoked diode in the 25 AMP fan circuit that somebody put a 40 AMP fuse in.      

 

Tele-Teaching Telebelt Radio Remotes

There are some differences between Putzmeister boom pump remotes and Telebelt remotes.  Let’s look at them.

The early Telebelt radio functions were programmed via Tele-Teach battery, using buttons on the side of the receiver.  The newer “Ergonic” (single joystick) Telebelt remote controls are set up a little differently.

The Ergonic radio transmitters have no Tele-Teach buttons.  They are programmed with a Tele-Teach battery.  They are also different in that you Tele-Teach rabbit ONLY.  Do not Tele-teach snail, with the battery.  The minimums you set, in “rabbit,” will be the minimums used by “snail.”

NOTE:  Any Tele-Teach battery will work.  The older (yellow) Tele-Teach batteries have a lower amp/hour rating than the new (red) ones, and don’t last as long.  If you are using a yellow battery, make sure it is fully charged.  Use your standard battery for set-up, and then switch to the Tele-Teach battery for programming.

The procedure:

  • Properly set the Telebelt on outriggers.  Raise the feeder and transfer and set the feeder on the ground.  Raise the boom out of the transport rest, high enough to clear mufflers and inlets.  Allow room for boom movement in all directions.
  • Turn the radio off and insert the Tele-Teach battery.
  • Hold the “+” AND “-” buttons in while turning the radio on.  The green transmit light will be blinking twice as fast.

Each function, e.g. slew right, has to be set for minimum and maximum.  Only one function can be set at a time.  It is necessary to be able to see the Modular Boom Control (MBC) valve while programming.  So, let’s set “slew right” on the rabbit side.

  • Reset the e-stop with the horn-reset/outrigger switch.
  • Set throttle up to max
  • Set boom speed switch to “rabbit.”
  • While watching the WBV (selector) valve, move the joystick to the right
  • When the WBV moves to the boom position, stop moving the joystick farther and hold that position.
  • After a slight delay, the boom should start creeping to the right.  If it moves too quickly, use slight taps on the minus (“-“) button to slow it down.  If there is no movement, use slight taps on the plus (+) button.
  • Release the stick, then move it back to the start position to check the setting.  Very often the slight taps will take you too far.
  • When you are satisfied with the start point, slowly move the stick to full right, while watching the slewing valve.  The slewing valve must contact its mechanical stop AT THE SAME TIME you reach full right on the stick.
    • If it hits too soon, you have a narrow adjustment window in the stick, and the boom will be jerky.
    • If it doesn’t hit at all, you will not get full speed
  • While holding the stick full right, adjust valve handle travel with the plus and minus buttons.  PAY ATTENTION TO BOOM POSITION.  If you are getting close to something, like the feeder, slew left and start again.
  • After setting the maximum, recheck the minimum setting.
  • Repeat for the remaining 5 functions.
  • Turn the radio off.  The settings will be retained by the transmitter memory.
  • Remove the Tele-Teach battery and replace it with the regular battery.

NOTE:  Telebelts manufactured after early 2011 have “teachable” feeders.  Set the horn-reset/outrigger switch to outrigger and use the battery to Tele-Teach feeder slewing and elevate in “rabbit” mode, ONLY.  User-defined mode and “snail” mode have no effect on those speeds.

Now, before you stow the outriggers, let’s set slew right in the “snail” position:

  • Turn the radio on and reset the e-stop.
  • Switch the boom speed control to “snail.”
  • Move the stick to the right until the WBV valve engages.  The “creep” speed will be the same as it was in “rabbit.”  DO NOT attempt to Tele-Teach this minimum.  That will change the rabbit setting as well.  Center the stick.
  • To set the maximum speed for snail slew right
    • Move the boom speed switch up to the user-defined position and hold it there.  It’s spring-loaded.
    • Move the joystick right until the desired maximum speed is reached and hold the stick at that position.
    • Release the boom speed switch
    • Center the joystick.  Now, even if you move the joystick all the way right, the boom will only slew to the maximum you set with user-defined.
    • If you want to change the maximum, just repeat the procedure.
    • Repeat for the other functions.

Telebelt Ergonic Radio

Tele-Teach Battery